WICHITA STATE (8-9, 0-4) at SOUTH FLORIDA (10-5, 3-1) Game Thread

[WuDrWu]

clearly getting outcoached with halftime adjustments. Not a good stat for those that like stats.

#Metrics

[Stickboy46]

For reference, here is the contact that made Pryor roll around on the floor holding his head and face ...

[ShockBand]

For reference, here is the contact that made Pryor roll around on the floor holding his head and face ...

Did he give out a proper Wilhelm Scream?

[ShockRef]

For reference, here is the contact that made Pryor roll around on the floor holding his head and face ...

Doc,
I will try and keep this brief.
Cassell and Nance are good officials. Let me get that out there right away.
However, on this play, they missed what we talk about every pregame.
We talk all the time about seeing play start, develop and finish. It's our primary job on every play.
Any official can call the last thing that occurs during a foul/play. I've often said I could train a hamster to do that.
The initial foul call was the result of what happens when you do not see the whole play.

In my opinion, Bell's chuck was what we call a non-basketball play. He wasn't playing the ball or the player. His contact had nothing to do with playing basketball.
Now...how all 3 missed it is beyond me.
When they went to the monitor, it was obvious they missed the NBP. Which in my mind, was definitely an F1.
The F1 in this case HAD to be called and even though it took going to the monitor, was the right call.

Notice I have tried not to say just how stupid Bell's action was. Although I think I did that in earlier posts.

I tried to be brief, yet provide an explanation.

That is all.

[WuDrWu]

Doc,
I will try and keep this brief.
Cassell and Nance are good officials. Let me get that out there right away.
However, on this play, they missed what we talk about every pregame.
We talk all the time about seeing play start, develop and finish. It's our primary job on every play.
Any official can call the last thing that occurs during a foul/play. I've often said I could train a hamster to do that.
The initial foul call was the result of what happens when you do not see the whole play.

In my opinion, Bell's chuck was what we call a non-basketball play. He wasn't playing the ball or the player. His contact had nothing to do with playing basketball.
Now...how all 3 missed it is beyond me.
When they went to the monitor, it was obvious they missed the NBP. Which in my mind, was definitely an F1.
The F1 in this case HAD to be called and even though it took going to the monitor, was the right call.

Notice I have tried not to say just how stupid Bell's action was. Although I think I did that in earlier posts.

I tried to be brief, yet provide an explanation.

That is all.

Fair enough. I realize my own bias.

My only remaining question is if the rules allow them to disregard the original foul called. I get the F1 on Bell. That makes sense because the rules allow it. Do the rules also allow them to NOT call the foul on Pryor that already had been called, and if so, what rule allows it? I just want to know for future reference when they can and cannot take away a foul that's already been called.

[asiseeit]

I watch every game but generally don't make posts during. 7 assists and 14 turnovers once again a glaring weakness. 2-19 three point shooting. No 2nd half adjustments when you should know the other coach will. Not KP's fault, not XB's fault, it was poor defense, terrible perimeter shooting and turnovers. KP most always has at least an average to better than average stat line.......he seldom has a bad one but seldom has a great one. He along with QB combine quite well and are not the team's problem. Few people harp on Rogers who plays below average defense, doesn't see the court well, doesn't move the ball well, and aside from a decent 3pt % has a lousy overall %. He really only does one thing well. He is far from a complete player. HB has some good moments as a down hill driver but as a SF he can't stretch defenses with his .229 perimeter shooting. That is another problem area. Need a three point threat on both wings. We don't have it. This makes it difficult on either of our centers to get some space to operate down low as they are sagged on and immediately doubled. Amazing our centers do as well as they do under these circumstances. We have plenty of shooters from the perimeter but few makers which allows defenses to sag, double and clog up the lane for drivers. Also gives them a rebounding advantage with and extra body in the paint. Cut KP some slack. He always gets double teamed because we lack perimeter threats. Think how well you might do if you were always double teamed???

[Shockm]

Doc,
I will try and keep this brief.
Cassell and Nance are good officials. Let me get that out there right away.
However, on this play, they missed what we talk about every pregame.
We talk all the time about seeing play start, develop and finish. It's our primary job on every play.
Any official can call the last thing that occurs during a foul/play. I've often said I could train a hamster to do that.
The initial foul call was the result of what happens when you do not see the whole play.

In my opinion, Bell's chuck was what we call a non-basketball play. He wasn't playing the ball or the player. His contact had nothing to do with playing basketball.
Now...how all 3 missed it is beyond me.
When they went to the monitor, it was obvious they missed the NBP. Which in my mind, was definitely an F1.
The F1 in this case HAD to be called and even though it took going to the monitor, was the right call.

Notice I have tried not to say just how stupid Bell's action was. Although I think I did that in earlier posts.

I tried to be brief, yet provide an explanation.

That is all.

I'm not debating your F1 analysis, nor the "stupidity" of the chuck. However, you can see from the frame photo (as compared with the game video) that it looked worse live, than on the picture. When the contact occurred the player's stride was on his right leg, and therefore he had no balance. Had it occurred when his stride was on his left, his balance wouldn't have been affected very much at all. Additionally, one can see "chucks" similar to this when players come through the middle of the lane consistently each game, often with smaller strides, and where balance isn't affected, and often not called.

[Stickboy46]

I'm not debating your F1 analysis, nor the "stupidity" of the chuck. However, you can see from the frame photo (as compared with the game video) that it looked worse live, than on the picture. When the contact occurred the player's stride was on his right leg, and therefore he had no balance. Had it occurred when his stride was on his left, his balance wouldn't have been affected very much at all. Additionally, one can see "chucks" similar to this when players come through the middle of the lane consistently each game, often with smaller strides, and where balance isn't affected, and often not called.

To be fair, i was only trying to show WHERE the contact occurred with the photo. What the photo doesn't show is Bell fully extending his arms for the most part. While true it absolutely happens a lot, its definitely not a basketball play by rule which is where the flagrant comes in. But like Doc said, I don't think the rules allow them to remove a personal foul from Pryor in the process.

[Husker4Shockers]

How many coaches were interviewed along with Mills? Was he the choice, or just the only one who would take the job? Can't light a fire under the players when the entire coach's bench is catatonic, and Mills is the most catatonic of them all; he make Isaac Brown look like Kevin Hart. Talk about the players all you want, but WSU obviously didn't get any prize with this guy.

[pinstripers]

How many coaches were interviewed along with Mills? Was he the choice, or just the only one who would take the job? Can't light a fire under the players when the entire coach's bench is catatonic, and Mills is the most catatonic of them all; he make Isaac Brown look like Kevin Hart. Talk about the players all you want, but WSU obviously didn't get any prize with this guy.

And how much of a raise did he get to come here, and was that much necessary?

[Shockm]

To be fair, i was only trying to show WHERE the contact occurred with the photo. What the photo doesn't show is Bell fully extending his arms for the most part. While true it absolutely happens a lot, its definitely not a basketball play by rule which is where the flagrant comes in. But like Doc said, I don't think the rules allow them to remove a personal foul from Pryor in the process.

I didn’t address anything you said. However, You didn’t address my point either. If his balance was on the left leg, it wouldn’t have looked nearly as bad. It was more of a length of stride and left leg balance issue that made it look bad. Otherwise, this contact happens often during games. BALANCE is a big part of the issue, no matter what Bell did.

[Kung Wu]

Guys, our team is so bad that it's beyond meaningful analysis. Even a good old Ginger vs Mary-Ann debate has more merit at this point.

[SubGod22]

Guys, our team is so bad that it's beyond meaningful analysis. Even a good old Ginger vs Mary-Ann debate has more merit at this point.

Mary Ann

[Stickboy46]

I didn’t address anything you said. However, You didn’t address my point either. If his balance was on the left leg, it wouldn’t have looked nearly as bad. It was more of a length of stride and left leg balance issue that made it look bad. Otherwise, this contact happens often during games. BALANCE is a big part of the issue, no matter what Bell did.

Right, i wasn't actually challenging anything you said, I agree with it. Was just trying to make it clear why i cropped the photo at that point in time because that can make a big difference. The original point of the photo was me calling out that Pryor was rolling around holding his face like he just got punched, when he got hit in the stomach

[pinstripers]

Guys, our team is so bad that it's beyond meaningful analysis. Even a good old Ginger vs Mary-Ann debate has more merit at this point.

Lovey